Futtermenge

Hallo zusammen,

anbei 2 Diagramme in Sachen Fütterung von Vogelspinnen. Ok, auf englisch, aber mit ein bisschen Kenntnis od. Google verständlich.

meinen VS soll es so ergehen wie den Kühen auf der Alp , gesundes Fressen und kein Zwang dabei .

Gruss Gene

Hallo zusammen,

@Basti: wie immer habe ich die notwendige Berechtigung des Urhebers. Den Tom Moran freut es sogar sehr, dass er auch in Europa gelesen wird. Anbei sein ok in schriftlicher Form:

"Hello, Gene!

Great to make your acquaintance.

As long as you credit me, by all means - please feel free to use it! Just a word about the diagrams; they only represent estimations of the life cycles. I thought visuals would be useful as those against "powerfeeding" slings often site a shortened lifespan as a reason not to. The fact is, slings will naturally eat as much as they can, and by getting them out of the sling stage quickly, you shave only a couple months off lifespans that can extend years.

Could I get a link to the forum?

Thanks so much!

Tom"

Martin:
es war ein Fehler von mir nur die Diagramme zu zeigen. Hinter diesen steckt mehr als nur eine reisserische Aufmache. Der Autor, Tom Moran, hat versucht aufzuzeigen, was das Pro und Kontra in Sachen "powerfeeding" ist, ob und wann sinnvoll. Ich denke, auch deine berechtigten Einwände (Temperatur, etc.) werden gut beantwortet.

Hier der Text zu den Diagrammen:

"Power feeding: The act of accelerating a tarantula’s growth by increasing temperatures and the amount and/or frequency it is fed.

If you’ve been in the hobby for any amount of time, you’ve likely been privy to a debate between hobbyists about the virtues or dangers of power feeding tarantulas. Although a less incendiary topic than handling, this subject still manages to elicit some strong views as folks are fairly split over whether this is a harmless practice or a detriment to tarantulas’ health and longevity.

However, like other contentious topics in the hobby, the answer might not be so black and white. While snake breeders have used power feeding for decades in order to quickly get their specimens to breedable size, the practice has been recognized for having adverse effects on the animals’ health. Therefore, the assumption is that the same practice would also be harmful for arachnids.

Unfortunately, comparing snakes to tarantulas, two very different organisms, might not work in this instance. And the little “proof” offered to support these theories comes in the form of keeper stories and anecdotal evidence. However, many keepers will understandably err on the side of caution and avoid this practice for the sake of their animals’ well being.

How do you power feed tarantulas?Although most folks think power feeding is just increasing the amount of food you give to your tarantula, it’s not quite that simple. To truly power feed, you need to do two things:

Increase the temperature: To get the quick growth power feeding is meant to promote, you also need to stimulate the T’s metabolism. This is done by increasing the temperatures to the low 80s for most species. Basically, the warmer the surroundings, the faster your tarantulas will grow. If the temperature in your home is dipping to 68° F (20° C), then your T will not have the fast metabolism required for quick growth. For true power feeding, it’s more about speeding up the metabolism than just pumping your T full of food.
Feed the tarantula as much as it will eat: With its metabolism sped up, it’s now time to increase the frequency food is offered. This can be every day or every couple days, depending on the size of the meal. If you give your .5″ sling a medium cricket to scavenge feed on, it might only be need to be fed a couple more times before it’s ready to molt. If you are feeding smaller, more manageable-sized prey, then it may eat every day to every other day.
It’s really that simple. Unfortunately, many folks will try to power feed their Ts without providing a warmer environment. Doing so will likely result in a fat T who takes its time molting (trust me … I’ve done it). This is not something to try if you’re keeping your collection at “room temperature”.

Also, some folks consider it power feeding when you feed your slings more than once a week. Although that’s a more ambitious feeding schedule, it doesn’t necessarily constitute power feeding. Again, it comes down to the size of prey. True power feeding involves giving them as much as they’ll eat, often feeding them every day, as well as increasing the temps. A smaller item with a two-day break before the next offering wouldn’t count. So, don’t panic if you feed your slings more than once a week; you are not power feeding.

Why might a keeper decide to power feed?There are a few solid reasons a keeper might partake in this practice.

The keeper is trying to grow a female to maturity faster for breeding purposes. If you’re a breeder with a young female you are hoping to mate, you may not want to wait the several years it could take for her to mature on a normal once a week feeding schedule. Breeders will often power feed females in an attempt to get a breedable specimen faster. This is especially true for folks who pay huge amounts of money to import new species with the hopes of producing some of the first captive bred slings. In this case, the goal is to get a viable sack (and big money for the sought-after spiderlings) as quickly as possible.

The keeper is trying to mature a male faster for breeding purposes. So, you have your female ready, and you’re having a difficult time locating a mature male. Just like in the instance above, the keeper may try to mature a sling or juvenile male more quickly through power feeding to get a mature male faster.

The keeper is trying to grow his/her spiders out of the delicate sling stage faster. I’m actually guilty of this one myself. Tarantulas are at their most vulnerable during the sling stage, where they are much more sensitive to environmental conditions and husbandry mistakes. Personally, I want my tiniest guys out of this stage as quickly as possible, so I usually give them as much as they will eat until they reach about 1.25-1.5″ in DLS. At this point, I switch them back to a more normal schedule of about twice a week.

The keeper wants his/her tarantula to grow to adulthood faster for aesthetic reasons. This one falls under the heading “impatience”, and is probably not the best reason for power feeding. The fact is, when you tell people that you have tarantulas, they are expecting to see giant hairy spiders. Unfortunately, even the largest of these awesome beasts start off as tiny, fairly unimpressive slings. Some hobbyists opt to power feed in order to get a large display spider faster.

The pros and cons of power feedingIt should be noted that nothing has been done in terms of scientific research as to how power feeding might negatively impact a spider. Most of what we think we know is postulation and guesswork. Until someone does some controlled experiments comparing sac mates that are power fed to those who aren’t, we’ll have to continue with our own observations and assumptions.

Pros:Grow adults to breeding age faster
Grow spiders out of the delicate sling stage faster to reduce mortality rates
You can sex you tarantula faster
Cons:Shortens the lifespan of the tarantula
Can cause molting issues
Stretched abdominal skin can rupture more easily
Some believe it can cause fertility issues in males and females (although this one seems to have been disproved repeatedly)
Now, it should be mentioned that some of the cons, like molting and fertility issues, have not been proven and are merely speculation. And, in some instances (like slings) the pros can outweigh the cons. Still, a lot about tarantulas is still unknown, and it is certainly possible that over feeding a tarantula could lead to health risks beyond just a fragile abdomen. There just isn’t enough data yet to make a definitive call one way or the other. And, it is absolutely true that fat spiders are more prone to abdominal ruptures, so this is a very real concern.

Teil 2:

Power Feeding Slings – Some Things to ConsiderMany hobbyists reason that tarantulas know what they are doing; if they want to eat, they’ll eat. If they’re not hungry, they won’t. In the wild, it behooves a sling to grow as fast as possible to outgrow this vulnerable stage. As slings, these animals are at particular risk from predators and the elements. During times when prey is plentiful, they would likely eat as much and as often as possible in order to foster faster growth.

So, why wouldn’t this hold true in captivity?

Even in captivity, tarantulas are most vulnerable during their sling stage. At this time, they are prone to dehydration and extra susceptible to environmental factors like humidity and temperature. Many, if not most, of the sudden deaths reported by keepers are spiderlings. Therefore, many keepers will only power feed (or feed much more often) when they are slings in order to grow them out of this delicate stage faster.

Personally, I tend to power feed my slings in the summer when the temps are around 80 or so for just this reason. Once the sling hits about 1.25-1.5″, I slow the feeding down to one or twice a week (depending on the size of the prey). This has worked very well for me.

But doesn’t power feeding slings reduce lifespans?The answer is: it honestly depends. Take a look at the charts below. For the first one, I used a hypothetical female tarantula with an average lifespan of 15 years. Due to the longevity of this species, power feeding has a very nominal effect on the overall lifespan (the gray area designated by a “?”) In this instance, the amount of time potentially taken off of its life is a matter of months, not years.

Now, this would be a female with a medium lifespan. Imagine if we were to use a Brachypelma, Aphonopelma, or Grammostola species female. Because they can live 25 years or more, the time power feeding one would take off of its lifespan would be negligible at best.

Personally, I think this is a worthwhile trade-off to ensure my spider better chances earlier in life.

For males, it’s a little bit different. Obviously, males have shorter lifespans as it is, and most will outgrow their female counterparts in the same time span. Therefore, the accelerated growth earlier in the male’s life-cycle will have a more profound effect on its overall lifespan.

In the chart below, we look at a male tarantula with a lifespan of three years. Here, the sped up growth cycle eats away a higher percent of its life, about 25%. That’s a pretty good-sized chunk. That being said, breeders will often underfeed males to keep them maturing too fast. If you find out that the sling you raised is a male, you don’t have to starve your animal, but a lighter feeding schedule would prolong its life and make up for some of the time lost to power feeding.

(Note: The charts above are meant only as approximations, and many factors, including temperature, diet, and the genes of individual species could impact these estimates.)

Either way, these charts illustrate the fact that the sling stage is actually a very small part of a spider’s life cycle, and power feeding a sling at this point in its life really doesn’t impact the tarantula’s lifespan that much.

Also, lets not forget that we are still not sure how long some of these spiders can live. So, if the T above were to die in the span of that gray area at the end, we would have no way of knowing if its lifespan had been shortened by early power feeding, or if there were other factors involved.

Just something to think about.

The VerdictHonestly, there is no real right or wrong answer when it comes to power feeding. This practice should be left up to the discretion of the keeper. Could it shorten a T’s life? Certainly. Can it also be very useful for breeding purposes? Absolutely. As long as proper husbandry is followed, and the animals are kept correctly, there really isn’t any harm to the T and its comfort level.

After all, in the wild they exist to eat, mature, and breed.

And, if a keeper wants to savor every minute with their beloved animal as it grows over the years, who’s to judge if she decides not to overfeed her animal. These animals are, for many of us, pets, and it would make sense that we would want them with us as long as possible. If this keeper has no interest in breeding, then it would behoove her to not rush its growth.

To each his or her own."

viel Spass beim lesen.

Gruss Gene

P.S. Tom Moran beantragt wohl auch die Mitgliedschaft hier im Forum.
P.S. Tom ist es wichtig, auch hier in Europa richtig verstanden zu werden. Hier noch eine Anmerkung von ihm, gerade angekommen:

"Gene,

I would just make sure that when you use them you make clear that this is not a scientific chart, and there are SO many other factors that must be taken into consideration. For example, powerfeeding requires higher temperatures as well; specimens kept in low temps will have slower metabolisms overall. Also, many species, like Grammostolas and Brachypelmas, will often eat at their own pace and won't take more than a single prey item a week. Phormictopus or Theraphosa species, on the other hand, will eat like machines if given high temps.

Tom"

Hallo Steffen und alle anderen Leser

wie immer sind deine Antworten bemerkenswert einfach aber präzis. Ich danke dir dafür.

Wenn ich nun die Kernpunkte aus Steffens Antwort und die Kernpunkte aus den 2 Seiten von Tom zusammenführe, dann ergibt es für mich ein Fazit:

Vogelspinnen mästen (für mich powerfeeding) bringt wohl kaum den jeweils erhofften Effekt. Eine Fütterung mit gesundem Menschenverstand, d.h. auch mal pausieren ist genau so effektiv.

Ich als Halter möchte ja möglichst lange an meinen Haustieren Freude haben. Dies erreiche ich ganz einfach mit moderaten Temperaturen und moderater Fütterung.

Gruss Gene

Zitat von Ebo

Ist doch toll wenn sich Hobbyhalter darüber gedanken machen und was zu schreiben.

Hi Ebo,

schön sind wir mal einer Meinung.
Anbei ein Link zu Tom Moran, der führt dich dann weiter und andere auch.
https://tomsbigspiders.wordpress.com/

Gruss Gene